This episode of the Food Matters podcast series features an interview with Isabella Altoé, a PhD student at Queen’s University and recent presenter at the 2021 Food Matters and Materialities conference. In this episode, we explore what agroecology is, how it is different from other food movements, two examples of agroecological movements in Brazil as well as sustainable solutions to go against the current agribusiness food system. These topics are important for building sustainable food futures and resisting capitalism.
Podcast episode host: Grace Ingraham
Interviewee: Isabella Altoé
Podcast theme music: Laura Bruno
Script editor: Kathy Dobson
Script editor & project manager: Myriam Durocher
Transcript
GI: You’re listening to the Food Matters’ podcast series, brought to you by Carleton University. My name is Grace Ingraham and I’ll be your host for this episode. I recently had the opportunity to meet with Isabella Altoé, a PhD student at Queen’s University, who presented at the Food Matters and Materialities Conference. Here is what came out of this fascinating discussion!
During the conference, Isabella presented her research paper titled, “Thinking of Food Futures: Resisting Capitalism Through Agroecological Practices”
Her paper focused on discussing two very important food movements: the Brazilian Landless Workers’ Movement also known as the MST. And The Capixaba Urban Network of Agroecology also known as RUCA based on the Portuguese spelling. She explored these movements to demonstrate how non-capitalist food systems produce food and work economically.
I first asked Isabella what led her to become interested in her field of research. And she provided this great response:
IA: I became interested in food studies when I was an undergrad student in Brazil, mostly because I became a vegetarian and I got interested in knowing more about the social/cultural aspects of food. In Brazil, when you are an undergrad student, you have to write a final essay that is more like a small thesis to finish your degree. So, I wrote mine about food, veganism and effective memories.
And that was the starting point that inspired me to study food. And then I got into a social sciences MA to continue studying food studies and related topics. And today, my research focuses on agri-food systems mostly because the environmental crisis is something that troubles me a lot. And it’s intrinsically connected to food production. So, I wanted to look at ways that we can get out of this mess and guarantee food futures for everyone.
GI: I thought this was a very detailed and personal answer. Isabella did such a good job of connecting her education, lifestyle and environmental concerns to show why it is important to her to study food. I especially liked what Isabella said at the end of her response… about how she wanted to find ways to get out of messes… like the environmental crisis and guarantee food futures for everyone.
In the title of Isabella’s paper, I noticed that she uses the term agroecology and refers to it as practice. I wondered what this meant and how it is different from other food movements such as organic farming. I decided to ask her:
IA: Agroecology is a practice and a theory that connects agriculture and ecology in an integrative way. So, it encompasses ecological, economic and social dimensions of food production. We can say that the main focus is sustainable food production that takes into account the health of the soil, the plants the animals and everything that is involved in the process of producing food, but much more than that, agroecology also considers the health of farmers and consumers. It believes in fair working relations, and it gathers farmers in favor of food sovereignty, food security, agrarian reform. It also acknowledges traditional knowledge and value diversity in food cultures. So, all these aspects that’s why we say agroecology is not just a practice, but it’s a social movement and a science as well. And this is what I believe is the main difference between agroecology and other food movements. Because it is a practice, a social movement and a science, agroecology has this holistic approach that is not common to other movements.
Organic farming for example, as you mentioned, it’s a method of producing food with no agrochemicals. But that doesn’t mean it’s based on sustainable practices. Of course, it can be. But for example, in Brazil, we have farmers that grow organic monocrops. So, this can be very harmful for the environment. It’s just like they’re just not using agrochemicals, but they’re doing all the other stuff that can be very harmful for people in the environment. So, for good food practice to be considered ecological or agroecological, it has to encompass many different aspects that go beyond the food itself. And I think that agroecology is one of the methods that accomplish that, but we can certainly find similar approaches in other food movements too.
GI: This was a great answer as it captured how agroecology is a practice to sustainably produce food… a social movement to advocate for health and fair working relations… as well as a science for its application of ecology in agriculture.
This leads to the focus of Isabella’s paper, the two agroecology food movements mentioned earlier. Before attending the Food Matters Conference, I had never heard of the Brazilian Landless Workers Movement… or The Capixaba Urban Network of Agroecology. So, I was interested to learn more and asked Isabella if she could tell me about them.
IA: These movements/initiatives, they are very different from one another. And I chose to talk about both because of the contrast and to show how our ecology can be found in very different scales in places. And the Landless Workers Movement is this huge movement in Brazil and is the biggest social movement in Latin America. They operate in the entire Brazilian territory they spread throughout Brazil and their main goal was to fight for agrarian reform and food sovereignty. And since it’s a peasant’s movement, they occupy vacant lands to produce food.
Food that they sell in agrarian reform markets or street markets. And since they are so relevant in Brazil, they’re so big. The movement is definitely involved in politics, and they are allies with other social movements such as Indigenous movements and LGBTQ+ movements and I chose to talk about the MST because of its relevance, but also because the movement faces a lot of backlash from the current Brazilian Government and right wing people. The farmers are often seen as criminals that invade private property. And people completely ignore all the work and struggle that these farmers have and are engaged in for like creating a more fair, social integrated situation in Brazil.
And the other project RUCA is much smaller. And it’s from the city that I am from in Brazil, and I wanted to discuss it to show how people don’t need to be part of a huge movement or to live in the countryside to get involved with agroecology. And I think that RUCA shows how agroecology should be present in urban centers. And it also shows that cities are spaces to grow food. And they work through community gardens, workshops, they map agroecological practices in the whole state. And I believe that these actions, this project, help to raise a much-needed awareness about food production and food security. Especially because these topics are not so common in urban centers.
GI: This explanation provided me with a better understanding of the two movements. I found it interesting how the MST is a huge movement in Latin America even though the Brazilian Government is not very supportive of it. The RUCA movement was also interesting because it shows how agroecology does not just have to be for rural areas it can also apply to urban spaces.
Since both movements have a big focus on sustainability, I asked Isabella if she could provide more detail on the aspects that make a food system unsustainable. I also asked if she has her own thoughts for any sustainable solutions. And this was her response:
IA: The way industrial food production works today I think represents everything that we should avoid. And the current system has this combo of practices that are usually un-separable like they are the monoculture system, which depends on agrochemicals and produces commodities, not food. So, this big scenario of monocultures is responsible for killing biodiversity, causing pollution, bringing health impacts on workers, the soil, water and everything.
And it also has other impacts such as the system forces farmers to work insane hours, under precarious conditions, and for a really bad remuneration. And it also is responsible for massive greenhouse gas emissions and contributes to social inequality and food insecurity. And the list goes on and on. So, I think that sustainable solutions are the ones that go against everything that the agribusiness monoculture system represents.
And these solutions they have to consider how food production is connected to the environment, to social, cultural and political domination. They have to take into account for example, the nonhuman entities that are part of the process, the animals, the vegetables, the soil, everything, the environmental impacts of food production, the farmers and consumers well being and it’s not just a matter of not using agrochemicals, but of providing land and fair working conditions for farmers. Also, accessible food prices for consumers and so on. We like to say that sustainable food practices and sustainable food needs to be sustainable for everyone. For those who eat, for those who produce, for the planet, for animals, for everything. So, I don’t know if I have solutions. But I think that the solutions, they have to go against what the agribusiness industry does.
GI: I found this response to be very insightful. I liked the part where Isabella explained how the solutions to unsustainable practices should go against the current agribusiness system. It highlights how allowing capitalism to control the food system can be dangerous for people and the environment. Based on her response, I asked Isabella if there are any steps society can do to resist the current agribusiness system. (PAUSE) This what she had to say:
IA: I think that the main point is that we need government to support small scale farmers. I’m going to talk about Brazil. That’s the scenario that I know the most, but I am sure like that the food industry is like that all over the word. So nowadays, in Brazil, agribusiness rules everything because they own the majority of the lands, they don’t pay taxes, they have seats at Congress, they are massive economic force. So, they basically decide the food futures of the entire country.
And for that to change, we basically need political changes that put small scale farmers as a priority. And that changes would be offering economic support to these farmers, making an agrarian reform to distribute plants more evenly, creating spaces for these farmers to sell their products. And I think that’s the only way we can resist agribusiness for real, we need a structural change that will only come from government action and bigger structures acting. But I’d like to say that on a more individual and activist level, there are things that we can do if we have conditions to do so such as buying from local farmers, making better food choices, educating ourselves about food insecurity, and food sovereignty and the harms of industrial agriculture. But of course, we have to understand that not everyone can engage with these practices, and that individual actions are important, but they won’t solve the problem with if we don’t have the structural changes.
GI: This response provides a lot for listeners to think about… and gives a variety of options for how people can get more involved in advocating for changes in the food system. I have certainly gained a new perspective through learning what agroecology is… and how it is utilized in food movements such as the MST and RUCA.
This concludes the podcast for today and I’d like to thank listeners for tuning in… and Isabella Altoé for her research…opinions… and participation in the 2021 Food Matters and Materialities Conference.
This podcast was brought to you by Carleton University. My name is Grace Ingraham and I was your host for today’s episode. Thank you to Kathy Dobson and Myriam Durocher, project managers and editors for this show as well as to Laura Bruno for the creation of the theme music. You can find more of Food Matters’ podcasts on the Food Matters website.